Episode 36: Jack's Caregiver Coalition
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Episode Transcript
Charlotte Bayala: Welcome to the Caregiver Connection Podcast. This is Charlotte. Let's begin.
Today I have Kyle Woody with me. Kyle is the Executive Director for JACC's Caregiver Coalition, which is an organization based in Minnesota that provides ways for male caregivers to connect and find support from caregivers who also understand what they're going through. Not only do we talk about what being a male caregiver is like, but we discuss issues that are universal issues for all caregivers.
Hey everyone, I have Kyle Woody with me here from Jack's Caregiver Coalition. Hi Kyle. Thanks for being here with me.
Kyle Woody: Good morning, Charlotte. It's, it's a privilege. I'm honored. for having us on your show.
Charlotte Bayala: Thank you. Thanks for making the time. Um, I am really interested in your organization. Um, I've learned a little bit about it, but was really amazed and excited because this is not something in the caregiver space that I've seen a lot of.
Can you tell us a little bit about Jack's caregiver coalition?
Kyle Woody: Of course. And you know, it isn't my organization. I, I do lead it, uh, but it belongs to the community. Uh, we're, we're not for profit. And so we're supported by our members and our donors and our sponsors. And our mission is to improve the way that guys think, feel, and act throughout every phase.
of their caregiving journey. And so we do that in a variety of ways. We have a variety of programs, but kind of the, the meat, or if I were to sum it all up into one sentence, we meet these guys where they're at in spaces that inspire solace and renewal. And so sometimes that's our podcast. Sometimes that's a sporting clay shoot.
Like we did this last Sunday, we went out and blew some stuff up. Um, sometimes it's a couple of guys getting together to go hiking. out in the woods. Um, sometimes it's a happy hour. Sometimes it's a discussion or support group that we have. Um, you know, we have monthly gatherings. Um, but you know, it's, it's less about trying to fix or solve anything necessarily and more about, um, a community that That we've built and, you know, we, we hear a lot in the caregiver world about, um, self compassion or, you know, we need to take care of ourselves, which is true.
Um, but we believe we, we need community care. We need, um, a community out there that, uh, sees and understands caregivers, uh, appreciates caregivers and supports them tangibly, you know, with, uh, financially, um, with space, with time, and so that's what, that's what we're all about.
Charlotte Bayala: That's awesome because I, I think that sometimes connection when we are talking about self care, um, I feel connection.
is sometimes pushed to the side. You know, when you hear or read or someone tells you as a caregiver, you really need to take care of yourself. And in essence, if someone's telling you that, I feel it's almost like them saying, you're really looking like crap. Like I'm worried about you and you really need to take care of yourself.
And so there's some resentment sometimes when people hear that because they think, um, I don't have the energy or the time to do that. I don't know what that looks like. And when they do seek out what that should look like, oftentimes it comes up with, you know, journaling and, um, meditating and, you know, trying to find time for yourself, but not.
Not often is it find a community of people that you can actually talk to and you're doing that, but also making a lot of the times that you all get together, um, as a way to have fun and release like the clay shooting that you did, um, the past weekend, you know, they're getting together in community.
You're not trying to fix anything. Um, but you are kind of in a way it is therapeutic because they're just able to be themselves or, or to come back to a time when they remember having fun and being that person instead of having to worry about, um, What is going on at home with the people that they're taking care of?
But do you find that it's hard to get them to engage? Um, is there, is there kind of a hesitation for people to say, yeah, I'm going to take this time and step away. Um, with the people that you have show up, is there. Yeah,
Kyle Woody: quite often, um, you know, we, we, uh, so one of our programs, Help, I'm a Caregiver. It's for, it's 101.
It's designed, um, for the brand newbies. And, um, just this earlier this week, I was working with a gentleman and, uh, his wife had told, him about us, I think four years ago, and had been reminding him, you know, consistently, Hey, you know, I really love it if you'd go hang out with these guys. And, um, it took until now, which her, her, her healthcare situation has become extremely dire and the end honestly is near.
And so now he's reached a point where He, he's reaching out and you know, um, unfortunately for a lot of guys, that's, that's what it takes for them to reach out for help is there to, to be a level of desperation, um, that they can't survive alone, you know, and, and guys are really good at isolating and, um, hunkering down and.
And disconnecting and weathering the storm for, for months and years, uh, all alone. And, um, so yeah, it is hard, but that's, you know, that's not always the case. There we hear from guys that same week that they received the diagnosis. And they're, they're reaching out right away and saying, look, I don't know.
I don't even know what I don't know about this and I'm here to learn. And I'm a student and I'm surrendering to, to, to you guys, to, to help me. And, you know, those are, those are the guys that we shine the light on, right? Like those are the ones we want to celebrate and we want the world to, to celebrate along with us and say, wow, what if, what if, what if all the guys were like this, um, what a different.
What a different situation it would be. Um, and, and, and how much better would it be for the, for the loved ones they care for? Um, you know, and that, cause that's ultimately what we are all striving for. Even the guys that are doing it alone is excellence. You know, they want to, they want to do a great job.
They, they may not know how, but they want to. And, and the guys who, you know, come to me and celebrate. Doing it alone with pride. Um, you know, I challenged them and I say, you can do it all. Um, but you're going to suck at all of it. Like you're going to be, if you're striving for mediocrity, then, you know, knock yourself out.
Um, but if you want excellence, build a team, empower them, uh, let other people be the magic, be a leader. Um, and that's a journey. You don't just wake up knowing how to do that, especially when you were raised and taught, uh, rugged individualism and figure it out, you know, um, asking for help is weakness, um, you, you know, myself and, and so many others that we serve were, that was the environment we were raised in.
Charlotte Bayala: Right.
Kyle Woody: So when the. The catastrophe hits, um, you know, that's, that's the thing we do. We, we hunker down and, and go at it alone and, um, so yeah.
Charlotte Bayala: That's a good way of looking at it though, as, um, asking for help and, and seeking help and, but creating a team that's allowing people who might not necessarily feel that they're, Allowed to ask for help, um, have a little bit more empowerment and ownership, um, in putting, placing it in front of them as you need help.
You need to create a team and, and learn how to just like a regular team, find the strengths that people have and call on that to help you. Um, I, I think that looking at it that way makes it a little bit more acceptable to ask for help because I know caregivers in general, uh, have trouble asking for help in some situations.
And especially if you've been brought up to be the person in the world that's supposed to take care of everything and to be that pillar of strength, to be able to say, no, I can't like, I would, if this, if I were to be presented with a problem, this big, any other part of my life, I would seek someone who's, who has the skills to help me do this.
So why not do it now? So if you were talking to someone about, um, who's just coming up to you and, and seeking to understand what they need to do now that they've just realized that they're a caregiver and they have this person that they, they're going to be caring for, for a long term, um, What would you suggest they do in, in reframing how they think about asking for help in terms of giving them more of an empowered outlook at creating a team instead of, you know, if you say let's create a team, there is action, you're being proactive, if you say you need to ask for help, there's a big amount of vulnerability that you need to have there, and it's a little bit more passive.
So how, how do you frame that so that you can have someone understand this is not you being weak. This is not, this is you being human.
Kyle Woody: Yeah, great question. I, I think, you know, the asking for help is the harder thing to do. And so, and it requires more courage. Um, so If you choose not to, you're taking the easier road, right?
You're, you're, you're being less vulnerable. You're being, I would argue, less courageous. Um, and so which do you choose? Courage? Um, I think, you know, that's, That's the, that's the route I would want to choose, right? It's easy to say, it's harder to do.
Charlotte Bayala: Um,
Kyle Woody: but I, you know, I, I look back upon my own story and I share it often that, you know, after a couple of years caring for my spouse with metastatic colon cancer.
Um, we had some friends, they just wanted to come visit us, spend a week with us, which we thought super cool, you know, this is finally some people to hang out with, you know, and dear friends. And at the dinner table that first night, Sarah and I were presenting our agenda for their week. You know, we had created a whole itinerary for them, um, because we were just being good caregivers, right?
We're going to take care of them.
Charlotte Bayala: Right.
Kyle Woody: And, uh, they said, that's nice, but we're not here for that. We're here to serve you. And Charlotte, they were looking at me and, and of course, I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm fine. You know, she's the one who's sick. You need to be serving her. And they went on to.
Uh, spend the week knocking out my honeydew list, cleaning the gutters on my house, organizing my garage, the deck needed staining, um, you know, things that just, you know, they were not important enough to get done in the scheme of what we were going through.
Charlotte Bayala: Um,
Kyle Woody: and it just, it changed my life, uh, because at the time, number one, I didn't identify as a caregiver.
Or that's not a word that, um, Anyone ever suggested, uh, to me or that I ever can, I don't sit around wondering, like, what am I doing life?
Charlotte Bayala: And,
Kyle Woody: uh, but they said, um, they went on to explain that, you know, before they came to visit, they went and met with a friend of theirs who had lost their loved one, uh, to cancer.
And. And his name was Jack and, and he said, serve the caregiver. They're always forgotten.
Charlotte Bayala: And he knew
Kyle Woody: from experience. Right. Um, and so that message when it hit me, um, it changed my life forever. And I think part of the reason is because I was completely, I did not appreciate at all what I was doing,
Charlotte Bayala: the
Kyle Woody: gravity of it, the bigness, um, because society didn't.
Um, that's changing somewhat, but at the time, this was 2012, um, there's very little conversation, um, in the larger media world about what caregivers are going through and, um, and so, you know, the first thing I say to, to, back to your question is appreciate What you're doing and, and the scale of it. And I tell stories about hospital teams where, you know, for a particular patient there at any one time, 12 to 14 people caring for that patient, you know, there's someone, uh, doing the laundry or a team of people.
There's the, the pharmacy, there's the nurse, there's the, the kitchen, you know, there's The cleaning crew, um, all of these things that, that go on in the home, that then the, and those people get to go home and rest, go somewhere else and sleep, and they get paid and, and it isn't their loved one who's dying.
So when you start to put all this together and you just start. To become aware of the gravity and the bigness of what you're facing, rather than what I was doing, which was completely ignorant, um, just slogging through it, I think that's where you need to start, because I think if you start there, then from there you can start to appreciate that, okay, this isn't weakness to ask for help.
This is the biggest challenge I've faced in my life.
Charlotte Bayala: Um,
Kyle Woody: and that I do feel alone because no one in my life is in this situation right now and I can't talk to them about it. Or I can, but they, they can't understand.
Charlotte Bayala: Right.
Kyle Woody: You know, so you can start to to come to other conclusions. So I think that's the most important place to start is just to appreciate um, the bigness that these are, these are spiritual problems often that are unsolvable.
Um, and you have to It just, yeah, you have to appreciate it. And I certainly, I spent years not appreciating at all, um, what I was doing and, and so do countless other caregivers.
Charlotte Bayala: When people come to you, uh, do you have a way of helping them realize how they can put processes in place for them for more support.
Is that something that you would do with the one on one coaching or the group sessions that you have?
Kyle Woody: Yeah, we, you know, largely we are not and never have been, um, a teacher or, you know, an educator, um, at least And insofar as we are not therapists,
Charlotte Bayala: right?
Kyle Woody: Um, we are not counselors. We have no, I have a degree in construction science, Charlotte.
Um, but it, uh, it is true that the stuff we do is therapeutic. Um, and. But it isn't therapy, and so, you know, these are, and we always come at it from a place of experience. Um, you know, anyone in our group who's leading a group is or has been a caregiver. And so, yeah, they don't have a degree, um, necessarily, or a license, but they have experience, and they speak from it.
Um, and that's wisdom. .
Charlotte Bayala: Yeah.
Kyle Woody: Um, so, you know, it, it, and, and it just depends, um, our, our 1 0 1 stuff, you know, we do wrap that up with a, and that's a place where we do take on a little bit of an educator.
Charlotte Bayala: Mm-Hmm. ,
Kyle Woody: uh, hat. And we only do that because we, we learned after several years on this mission that we were finding people, um, and we serve men and women.
I should point out, actually, the majority of our programming is co-ed. Okay. Um, but. that people would not know about organizations that we assumed everyone knew about. And that's because, you know, we've, you know, I was a caregiver for nine years and you don't even know what you know, right? Like you forget and you assume.
And so we said, okay, we're going to take a step back and go through some basics because we owe our, our, our people that. And So there is a space where we do a little bit of educating and, and say, okay, you know, here's some basics. And, and we have a playbook that we've created that, um, we ask our members, you know, what are the roles that people have played on your caregiving team
Charlotte Bayala: that
Kyle Woody: you found the most beneficial?
And so we share those with, with our, um, with, you know, the folks that come to that program, because. Those are important lessons,
Charlotte Bayala: and
Kyle Woody: it's not, it's not a, here's another, um, guide of things that you need to do,
Charlotte Bayala: because
Kyle Woody: there's plenty of those out there in the world. You know, take care of yourself, exercise, all that, which it's all true, um, but it's redundant.
Charlotte Bayala: Um,
Kyle Woody: ours instead is, here are the ways you can empower other people. And tangible things that rather than them saying, how can I help? And you having no idea, it's like, Hey, Charlotte, I need you to play this role.
Charlotte Bayala: Right. And I think that's one of the hardest things for people to do as caregivers, no matter if they're male or female, is, especially in the beginning of, um, the course of someone finding out that they have a disease or they've just been in a, in a really bad accident, whatever the case is, you always have this outpouring of people in the very beginning asking, you know, what can I do?
How can I help? Bye. You're in the middle of trying to figure out things that feel so much more important. And so oftentimes people will just say, I don't really know. And you kind of just try to do it yourself. And that may mean, you know, not eating because you're just too tired to figure out what to eat or to make anything to not sleeping to, you know, just like the, the normal everyday things start to fall apart because what you're trying to deal with in your head is so much bigger.
The situation with the care of the person is is so all consuming that you can't see past that to know how to answer those questions. And then when you kind of get over that hump for a second and you have just a quick moment to breathe, you're like, holy cow, I have all this stuff I need help with, but now no one's asking what help I need because, you know, they've gone through their process and they're returning back to their lives.
So I think, you know, um, trying to, to. Call out the strengths that people have. And we all know what that is. Maybe it's someone who is real, who really likes to shovel snow, someone who really likes to bake someone who's really organized, you know, instead of just saying, no, one's going to help me. But that's because they don't know how to step in.
Just taking a moment to say, wait, I know this person is good at XYZ. Um, or maybe this person is really organized. Maybe I'll have that person help me try to figure out what help I need and be responsible for that. And it's okay to give that ownership up to someone else who's. Who just wants to be there to help.
So
Kyle Woody: I want to point out, it never gets easy.
Charlotte Bayala: No,
Kyle Woody: I've been doing this for years. Um, I'm now, I, I refer to myself as the primary caregiver of this organization. And so I need to ask for help, right? Like, This isn't, this is way bigger than me
Charlotte Bayala: and
Kyle Woody: this problem that we're trying to solve our mission is enormous.
And so I've found myself throughout many seasons in the last six years of doing this that I retreat back into do it yourself mode because I can do it faster. I think it's better because I'm smarter, blah, blah, blah. And, um, and so I just want to reinforce that it never Gets easy. And, um, and, and so be easy on yourself and, and And don't beat yourself up about, you know, doing it all on your own sometimes, because I think that's okay.
And, um, as long as you realize eventually, that's probably not a durable strategy and you need to, You know, just pause and reflect and ask yourself frequently, you know, how am I doing? How's, how, how is the situation? Um, because it is, and even, even at home, Charlotte, uh, this week on Monday, I had a meltdown and it was, It was ugly and it was the same thing.
I'm trying to do everything for everyone all the time. And I was reminded of a quote, you know, don't set yourself on fire to keep everyone else warm. I don't know who said it or where I read it, but I was on fire. And, you know, I think a lot of us caregivers are very flammable, you know, we're quick to just burn ourselves out.
And so, you know, I don't stand here before you saying I've got it figured out,
Charlotte Bayala: or
Kyle Woody: that I know, you know, look at me, I know how to ask for help. It's like, Yeah, I know how, but often I don't. Yeah. And, and why, I don't know. I just, I'm working on it, right? It's a, it's a never ending journey for, for many of us.
Um, so be patient with yourself.
Charlotte Bayala: That's, that's good advice to be patient because, um, We're not trained to do this, you know, we, we didn't have a forewarning and, and be told, this is going to happen six months a year from now. So here's what you can do to prepare yourself. You know, these things are usually thrust upon us with, without much warning.
Um, what would you say? So I, I think all of us at some point fall into this, just doing it ourselves. And. don't really check in with how we're doing. Um, what would you say would be kind of the signs that a person should look for? You know, what is, you know, What is not having enough self care, not finding the help that you need?
How does that show up in people that maybe they're like, no, I'm fine. I got this. You know, they're listening right now. And, but maybe aren't seeing these kinds of signs that they might have a meltdown soon because they're not getting the support that they really, really need.
Kyle Woody: Yeah, I mean, it's different for everyone, right?
I can only speak for, for myself and, and for me, it is, I, I realize I'm not choosing my reaction to things, you know, it becomes a default response, um, you know, quick to, uh, frustration or anger or sadness or even, you know, any emotional response, but it's not something I'm choosing, it's just. Happening and that was, that was the case for me on Monday this week, you know, I, I, um, told my wife I couldn't do this anymore and it scared the crap out of her, you know, she, we haven't been married very long and, um, it's a terrible thing to say, and, but I didn't choose it, it just came out of me, um, and I, you know, in my reflections and in my work that I did after that, I just, you know, I was reminded of, um, a terrific book I read years ago, Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning, and in it he talks about, um, that we, we, we have to choose our attitude in the face of unavoidable suffering.
And, and so it's, that's two things for me. One is there is suffering that you cannot avoid in your life and especially as a caregiver, right? Witnessing your loved one suffering is suffering for you psychologically. And so you have to, at some point, just accept that.
Charlotte Bayala: Right.
Kyle Woody: And it is, there's no fixing it.
And then you, and name it, you know, this is the work I'm doing now. I'm defining better my suffering with four kids at home, a wife working at home, me working at home, winter bearing down on us in the upper Midwest, you know, and these are real sufferings. Um, And at times, and, and I need to name them, and then, once I name them, I feel like, you know what, I can choose.
how I'm going to respond to this.
Charlotte Bayala: Right.
Kyle Woody: When I don't do that work, when I don't really get that clarity of what the suffering is doing to me, I don't, I know I'm not choosing it. It's just, it's my emotional response. Um, not that I have a problem with emotions. I think they're awesome. They make us human and, um, you know, we don't need to all be Alexa.
Um, but it needs to be positive, you know, um, And, and I don't want to say to the person I love more than anyone in my life that I can't do this anymore. That's not okay. Um, so that's a long winded response. So that's what it looks like for me. Um, and, you know, at least, At my older age, I'm able to control my physical response.
Younger, younger me would have maybe punched a hole in the wall or, um, you know, drank myself to sleep or whatever. Um, so it looks a little different these days, but I think people know, you know, when you're not in a good place and you just need to listen to yourself.
Charlotte Bayala: And I think that's important is the, the listening to yourself, um, allowing that message to come through because.
Um, I think that the way you deal with emotion is how you were brought up and at the age that most of us are at, I don't feel that emotions were, were, were kind of considered as something to talk about as much as they are maybe now with children, um, who are growing up now. Um, Do you find that men have a harder time, um, accepting the emotions that they have when they find themselves in this caregiver situation where They're dealing with overwhelm and sadness and, and, and fear, right?
Kyle Woody: Yeah, I think, you know, both, right? Like we have, um, we've served, um, uh, women who are caregivers who would much more, uh, identify with the male stereotype. of, of dealing with emotions and we, you know, I've got friends, uh, in the cancer community who would say their female caregiver is, is, is less emotional than they are.
Um, and you know, my belief is just, we're all emotional, whether you have a penis or a vagina, it doesn't matter. You're a human. And, and so, you know, What is this labeling all about? You know, why are we doing that?
Charlotte Bayala: Um,
Kyle Woody: and I think, but it is true, I believe to an extent that the stereotypes and the media that we're exposed to, you know, influences us and, and, and creates models that we without our even knowing are, are trying to follow,
Charlotte Bayala: um,
Kyle Woody: probably most importantly, our parents and how they, you know, how did they respond, uh, to crisis when, when you were young.
Um, so I do think for a lot of guys, excuse me, it is, um, you know, there are certain emotions that it's okay to show, like anger, you're a guy, that's normal, right? Like you get pissed off, um, sadness or, you know, being melancholy or, you know, these other things. These other things are weakness and, and it's, is it okay to cry, you know, um, it depends on, you know, who, who raised you and, and what you've seen before.
And, um, you know, I, I had a story told to me from a, from a, a fantastic therapist in this community who she said she saw a guy and, and he was going through a really, really hard time. And he said, you know, she asked him, do you ever cry? And he said, well, yeah, in the shower, um, in my pillow, um, in my car, you know, sometimes I scream.
And so those were his, he's like celebrating, Hey, I'm, I am processing these emotions. I'm feeling them. Um, yeah. But she asked him, well, what do you ever get back from the pillow
Charlotte Bayala: or
Kyle Woody: from the shower or from your car? You know, and I thought that was a beautiful question because the answer is nothing. And, and that's where, that's where us guys have to get better at, um, you know, being vulnerable and feeling that support.
And, and I tell you, Charlotte, 92 percent of the guys who come and engage with our community, come back. And that to me tells me, uh, that all they need is to see other guys doing it. And, and then it's okay. And then they realize, Oh, I am human. It isn't weird that I'm feeling this way and I'm not alone. And, um, And I remember after we did a yacht trip one summer and afterwards there was a new guy, uh, there was about 10 or 12 of us, I think.
And, and we were going to our cars and he's very awkwardly, he said, is this, are we supposed to hug now?
And I was like, hell yeah. Like, why not? You know, I, I mean, there's no, there isn't, it's funny to me that there's like, okay, what do we do now? Like, I need a playbook, like whatever, high five, hug. It's all fair game. But it told me that he was longing for that connection. He missed it. He was desperate. He didn't have the words for it.
Um, but we're all human and we all need it.
Charlotte Bayala: Yeah. I think that's one of them. The important things that I see from your organization when I was, um, Becoming acquainted with it because. caregivers in general, when we are out in the world, we don't have any, it's not like we have a broken arm or broken leg.
There's nothing that can show to the world that we're hurting, right. Um, or that we're stressed out or we have, you know, something really big weighing us down because we, we have this person that we love so deeply and that we're taking care of. And we don't. We don't have any idea of how things will move forward.
Um, and we don't see, so we don't see on the outside unless you have this big t shirt that says, I'm a caregiver. Ask me about my story. Right. Um, you don't, you don't know that the person standing next to you in line, maybe going through something similar. And so you feel like you're experiencing all this all by yourself.
And the feeling of loneliness in itself is. One of the biggest problems I see in caregivers because when you feel alone, you don't, you, you don't feel like, um, you're allowed to feel some things or to think certain things because you don't have other people who can say, yeah, I feel that too. You know, just like you having that moment saying, I can't do this anymore.
I, I think. Any caregiver who's been a caregiver for, oh, even a little bit of time has had that moment where they're like, I don't think I can do this like I, I don't, I, I don't know how I can handle this and don't say it because they feel like they're going to be judged or they're scared that if they do say it, that it'll, it'll show more into, um, they're not knowing if they can handle what they're going to, what they're stepping forward to do.
Um, and so just knowing other caregivers and being able to say these things and hear them and just know that you're not alone can do so much for just one person, for them to go back home or to hear a podcast or read a story and just say, I'm not the only one going through this. It doesn't help the situation.
Right. But it helps you, um, position yourself in a world where you're not the only one. Um, and so then maybe don't judge yourself as much as you have in the past. You don't minimize your feelings and the things that you're experiencing because they're all valid. Like you. You deserve to have these emotions.
If something shows up, that's your body and your, your mind and your soul telling you, Hey, you need to listen. Like I'm really sad right now. Like experience being sad and it being okay because you know, other caregivers are feeling the same things. So I feel that. If it's just, it's not just a yacht trip or it's not just, you know, getting together for drinks or, or whatever we do virtually now.
Right? It's Seeing other people who are in the same, um, position that you are and you don't even have to, you know, qualify it, you just know that when, when people go to your events, that they're all in community with people who, who understand you and being understood and being seen are important things to be able to, to have as a caregiver and as a human in general, right?
Yeah.
Kyle Woody: Amen. Yeah, you know, I want to acknowledge, um, you know, the guys in, in some ways I think have a harder time because the stereotype is like caregiving is a, is a female thing. Um, so to some extent I believe it's, it's harder on us guys because no one, you know, really. just thinks about the fact that there are 16 million guys in this country doing this.
Um, but I also think to some extent it's easier for us. I, I read an article, um, I believe it was last year and I Apologize, I don't remember the source, but there was a story of a, of a woman talking about, you know, the world is telling me, uh, that I need to take care of myself, you know, that I need to get a facial or a massage or a pedicure.
And, and she said, I. I feel like they're just, they, that I look tired to them and that's not okay.
Charlotte Bayala: Yeah. You
Kyle Woody: know, and, and that I need to be pretty.
Charlotte Bayala: And
Kyle Woody: she was rejecting that. And I was just like, hallelujah. Um, you know, kudos to this beautiful woman. this person for having this awareness.
Charlotte Bayala: And,
Kyle Woody: and then it dawned on me, you know, that's where us guys have it easier because no one cares what we look like.
We don't, we don't have to be pretty or, you know, we can not shave for several days. Who cares? Like the world doesn't care about that. And so I think, um, it's, I wish there was more awareness in the, in the female caregiver community that, um, you know, it isn't about, how you look and it, and it isn't your responsibility to look, uh, you know, not tired.
Um, you can look however you want. You're the boss. That's what I say. Um, um, so I just, I just wanted to acknowledge, you know, and, and the reason where our mission is focused on guys is just because we believe that's where we can make the biggest impact. And, and that for our small team and our resources, um, we think that.
That's where we, we, we can excel. And again, I want to remind everyone, we do, we do serve women and our co ed programming is, is, um, oftentimes our most popular.
Charlotte Bayala: Um,
Kyle Woody: so we, we know that, um, and this is a stereotype that women tend to be more naturally equipped to play the role. Um, They tend to be better at dealing with unsolvable problems.
You know, us guys, we're fixers. We, the chains off the bike, we want to put it back on the bike. With caregiving, there's oftentimes no putting the chain back on the bike, right? It's broken. Um, and so we know to help the guys we have to involve. The women, um, and, and that it's equally, if not harder, uh, for the women facing these challenges as well.
So,
Charlotte Bayala: yeah, I think it's, I think it's also good that you have a place where men feel accepted and that you give them the space to be vulnerable, because I also feel that the caregiver space is, um, The people that are out there that are vocal, that are seeking help, that are trying to give help that they're predominantly women and to.
If you're not represented, then it's really hard for you to see yourself in the position that you're in, in the grand scheme of the whole entire group, right? So for men to be able to see someone like you and the other people who are working with you and, and providing activities that they would really love to go to, um, I, I think that's important.
I, I wish that Every city had something like that for men. Um, and, and that's not saying that women don't need that. I would love to have an organization that, um, has events for women caregivers too, but I think that in finding community men also. I don't see it happening as much as I do with women. Um, even when people are on Facebook groups or, or just in, in some kind of caregiving group, um, even in person when I've gone to caregiver, um, kind of group, um, therapy, it, it's usually, 80 percent women, maybe there's one or two men that show up and they don't show up all the time.
And I feel that oftentimes because of that, they, um, censor themselves when they speak. And, and I, it, I feel like everyone needs a place where they can just be themselves and say things without having to worry about what the person that in front of them Is, is going to think, you know, and so if you can provide a space for men to be able to communicate with other men, then that's awesome because they, they need that just as much as anybody else needs that experience.
So, um, I, I just think that it's really important to have something that like you've created with other people that work with you, um, and just giving that to people. I mean, that has to be. So, um, so much of a, of a change in a person's life when they realize there's this thing in this place, but these people just like me that I can go to and, and be heard and seen, um, and not have to worry about what I say.
I mean, that's everything.
Kyle Woody: Yeah, we're, we're, we're proud of it. And we're just, you know, every, every interaction we get to, to serve, um, a caregiver, it's just so humbling and, and, um, it's such an honor and, you know, that these folks choose to give us even a fraction of their time. Um, and, and they always find that.
In these environments, I say always
Charlotte Bayala: the
Kyle Woody: vast majority of the time that I know about, they end up giving in that environment too, not just getting, and they're able to shore up someone else's blind spot, you know, learning, I think is a social phenomenon and. You know, putting people in a room or in a space together, um, that are sharing a fundamental challenge, it's, it's awesome to, to just even witness, um, and that's largely what we do, we just get them together, we get out of the way,
Charlotte Bayala: and they
Kyle Woody: are the magic, and, um, and that feeling, I think when you realize Number one, you're not alone, but also, hey, I need to stop just focusing on myself and that, that inward look, you know, that, that spirals, you know, that, Hey, there's this other person over here who I can help.
Charlotte Bayala: Yeah.
Kyle Woody: That's outside of my little bubble. Um, you start to have a perspective that's, that's bigger than you and you start to develop more meaning in your life, um, which is helpful. You know, you, you, you just change your mindset. Um, and so many of the caregivers we serve, you know, they go on to become coaches in our community.
They go on to, they keep coming back and it's, it's not for them anymore. It's because they want to be, uh, the person that inspired them. You know, now it's their turn.
Charlotte Bayala: Yeah.
Kyle Woody: And so it's just so cool to see that happen over and over again. And then, you know, if, if they've lost their loved ones, it's like, you know, now there's meaning to that, you know, they're, they're, they're turning this horrible pain and suffering into some sort of purpose and, and it just, to witness it just blows me away.
I'm the luckiest person in the world to get to do this job.
Charlotte Bayala: Oh, well, and I'm sure they feel the same ways they're lucky to have you in this world to provide this, um, with the other people that are that are with you on that journey. Um, what would be one thing that you would tell someone out there who's just becoming a caregiver?
Um, looking back, what, what would have been that one thing that you wish someone would have come up, maybe whispered in your ear when you were in the middle of the beginning?
Kyle Woody: You know, the one thing I just, I'll reiterate what I said earlier is, um, you know, appreciate what you're doing and what you're facing, the challenge of it. Bye. I believe that caring for a loved one with a catastrophic illness is among the single most important and largest challenges you'll face in your life.
And, and, but I also believe that every one of us has a potential to rise to that challenge, bring it, bring to it our boldest and most confident self. You know, I was meek and timid, uncertain, um, nervous, Did not challenge the medical system. Just took whatever was handed to me. Um, I was a lemming just like following what the world was telling me.
And if I had it to do over again, I would surrender myself to everyone that I could find that had experience and learn from them like a sponge and then become. The bold and courageous leader as a caregiver that I know now that I had the potential to be then, um, and so for the guys stop acting like you've got it figured out because you don't, and how could you, you've never done this before.
That's like saying, Okay, now you're the quarterback of the Minnesota Vikings. You know, you weren't yesterday you are today. And now, Somehow, you know how to do that.
Charlotte Bayala: Right.
Kyle Woody: Um, you don't, and that's not something to be ashamed of. Um, so be curious, um, listen and, and connect with the people, you know, in your community, if, if it's not, if there isn't a Jax, um, if, if there isn't, it doesn't appear to be a community of support, um, if it's cancer, well, Hey, there's a dude over there in the infusion chair with his loved one.
Um, go shoot the shit with him.
Charlotte Bayala: Yeah.
Kyle Woody: Ask him, you know, Hey, what's up? Like, I just want to meet you, you know, not, you're not necessarily asking for help or whatever. You're just connecting with this person. And, um, you know, that's how we started. So, um, So just, just connect, connect.
Charlotte Bayala: Awesome. Thank you so much for being here with me today.
Um, I had so much fun just talking. It's always good to talk to other caregivers and, um, connecting. Um, I think that's one of the important things for us to do. So thank you so much for. For speaking with me today.
Kyle Woody: It was an honor. Thank you, Charlotte.
Charlotte Bayala: Thank you I'm so grateful that Kyle shared some of his time with us If you're interested in Jack's you can find them online at Jack's caregiver co org this link will also be in my show notes and on the website Thank you for listening to and supporting the podcast. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it with someone who might benefit from listening to it.
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